But if you had any understanding of aerodynamics/fluid dynamics you would know that in those regions the air either stagnates or circulates while the primary flow follows streamlines directly into the mouth of the tube. 04 f250 cc sb. Source : http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm, You may catch me by One of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate. GearBox Code Vehicle Front LSD Ratio W5M33-2-NGRE   Lancer gsr RS (1992, 1800cc) ? The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. Velo GPT-2 fixed back + alloy side mounts. info from a intercooler builder's website … Tube and fin cores are more common than bar and plate. Once you can explain a few basics like settling chambers, von karman vortices, the navier stokes equations, turbulent wall growth or the meaning of a reynolds number I'll be prepared to listen, but I'll point out I'm not discussing with the owners of the website, or an expert in cooler design am I? Ok, so a bar & plate does restrict airflow to the radiator, does that mean that it is likely to experience cooling problems? The VR4 and GSR gearbox share most of the same gear ratios believe it or not. Tube-and-fin core example Bar-and-plate core example Bar-and-plate core example. Source... And here are some pics which illustrate what I meant when I said the charge air entries on a bar and plate sit flush with the core...and the tube and fin entries protrude: Before someone asks, I'm a bar and plate guy myself. Turbo flows and sizes information, random copy paste from the web. The prices available in dezz's current buy are the best I've seen and most users won't need to split the hair on "can it do 20 laps at full noise without temperature issues. It also allows better flow to the radiator. I know you wrote it but but have you actually read it and tried to match up with some things called fact and reality. go for the bar & plate u will be needing it to cool down the air alot faster than a tube & fin. Testing & comparing the 3" tube and fin vs. the 4" plate and bar intercoolers. Ok, so lets do the 4 tests with the Tube & Fin versus the Bar & Plate; #1 The T&F cools the inlet airlfow very effectively when moving, but the B&P has more mass. Consider joining our newsletter for the latest content updates, By and if you actually read what SK said and what i have said, i'm saying pretty much the same thing. Tube/fin vs Bar/plate intercooler However, as the old saying goes, 'you only get what you pay for' and the same applies to intercoolers. GoHashiriya Unused nearly max pressure, unfiltered oil port, second port from oil pump. The best flowing intercoolers have always been used on Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin construction. and bar and plate take longer to heat up, but also hold heat and take longer to cool down (as people have said) which is why bar and plate are used in drag cars, and tube and fin used in street/circuit cars. Rusty Nuts If you want to drive it on the road occasionally, simply swap to water with a pump and a tube and fin heat exchanger. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). Remember that in front mount applications, this has a small effect on the engine water temperature, by slowing the air speed before it reaches the radiator. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. Tech: Bar & Plate vs. Tube & Fin Intercoolers. BigMal. Airflow, boost pressure, and engine displacement will all play a role in how an intercooler has an impact on the performance of your vehicle. Be apart of SAU Community by signing in or creating an account. bar and plate vs tube and fin is a harder one. "Typical tube-and-fin units utilize extruded tubes with fins pressed into place. But is it really that much better than the $400 GKTech kit? Bell Intercoolers fins are uniformly and fully brazed to the entire tube … Both have differen... MITSUBISHI Model Engine Eng. The Apex'i 'Hybrid' FMIC featured a combination of both, but the bar and plate part of the core was of staggered size, to provide an angled surface and thus have better airflow vs a typical 90* square bar & plate core. Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. if you have roiom for a big one go a cheap bar and plate, but make sure its been pressure tested . Both have different advantages with their own pro's and con's. I picked up a greddy tube and fin intercooler (600x300x60) for $250. Tube and find on the other hand won't achive as low a drop in temp as bar and plate as it has less surface area to remove the heat. Tube and Fin Intercooler Pros Generally weighs about half as much as a bar and plate core of similar dimensions Generally less expensive Generally less flow restriction within the core than bar and plate … On the scales the tube and fin core is almost 5kg lighter than the bar and plate. add me to your list up there gary.... Hi quinny, I have sent you a PM regarding the cooler...so if you are in fact confirming as part of the group buy, can you get back to me on that PM? Let’s see; 1. the Gibson GTR’s all used tube and fin intercoolers and they won every meaningful Group A race in Australia for 3 years. Introduce Yourself Here, looking for : R33 gtst gearbox rear housing. This means that more heat will move into the fins at a faster rate. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it, New To The Forum? I was wondering if anyone else can confirm or deny this and also tell me which is better for cooling capacity. Started Yesterday at 11:43 AM, By I have a Hybrid super monster bar and plate intercooler and have no overheating problems it works well. Sign up for a new account in our community. Tapped port for  stock oil pressure dummy s... CAM ADV Duration Duration @ 1mm Peak Lift (mm) Centerline Intake OEM EV... 4G63 and 4G64 comes in several cars. I've never had engine cooling problems on my track car with a bar and plate 800hp cooler, but I was only doing a max of 7 laps at a time, in fact never noticed a temp spike in either outlet temp from the cooler or engine (well other than the back end when a cooler hose blew dumping flames out the exhaust ) but it was a quite a bit larger than the size SK tested. I am wondering what the difference is between a Bar & Plate cooler, and a Tube & Fin cooler. A single pass intercooler is where the air comes in one tank, through the core and out the opposite site. this is wat ive always been told in regards to coolers.. bar and plate coolers better but doesnt flow aswell as tube and fin, tube and fin flows better than bar and plate but doesnt cool aswell, yet in saying that was also taught this.. if you can only fit a small intercooler go for a bar and plate due to its cooling aspects. Dose's Sometimes DIY and Pay Someone Home & Boat Improvement Thread, RB25DET NEO VCT pulley, valve and cams$250 RB26 alternator(no pulley)$100 RB30 ACL race main and rod bearing set$100, Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates, Get your own profile page, build reputation and make new friends. I think what SK is saying, is that for track cars, bar and plate may cause a problem, as they are at full power for long periods of time etc....on the street and at the drags, bar and plate would be fine...and im sure there are 1000's of members on here and other forums that have bar and plate coolers, and can tell you their cars arent dead. (Remember that the intercooler cools intake air by heating the body of the intercooler, not by radiating heat to the outside air.) One cooler is not the absolute best for every vehicle. by NUT347 » December 14th, 2009, 7:29 am Just got a few questions. Rubbish, absolute rubbish, who the hell fed you that load of crap? I wrote this awhile back, figured I share it here. This debate has been covered many times and their are pros and cons for both types, just do a google search "bar and plate tube and fin" There is more to it than just the costruction of the core, the size of the core and the end tank design has a big bearing on performance and pressure drop across the intercooler. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. Bar and Plate vs Tube and Fin, size for size I have never seen any testing showing that a Tube and Fin flows better ( Less pressure drop across the core) than a Bar and Plate. Started December 9, 2016, By Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). 3/8 BSPT  2. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. 3. the Mines GTR uses a tube and fin intercooler, the bench mark by which all road/circuit GTR’s are measured, 4. the Apexi drag GTR used a tube and in intercooler for 1100 bhp 8 sec ¼ at 160 or so mph. They do limit the airflow to the radiator more than tube and fin cores. How many examples would you like of fast Skylines using tube and fin intercoolers. Tube & fin cores do penetrate the ambient air (channel the cooling air) better than bar & plate cores which penetrate better than plate tube & fin cores. cheers, dc. you can see the lip inside there. There are significant differences in intercoolers, not only in core construction (bar and plate or tube and fin), but also their design (especially tank design). A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. Shall I continue, there are several more pages of examples? Any flow restriction is easily overcome by sizing it large enough for your needs, as long as you can make room for it. Instead of utilizing the tube like the tube-fin coolers, the plate and fin move the transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum plate series. Started Yesterday at 08:14 AM, By The inherent design of a bar-and-plate core promotes better heat transfer and is better at handling high-boost applications than a tube-and-fin core. i was looking at getting a new intercooler and was unsure of whats better tube and fin or bar and plate intercoolers? bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. This is basic stuff that a first year engineering student will learn. Think of the extensions into the end tanks as ram tubes or splitters, then you are much closer to the true airflow characteristics. 4" P/B wins hands down for a centrifugal supercharger. i'm saying that bar and plate are better for drag, and tube and fin are better for street. the heat rejection of a tube and fin can exceed a bar and plate of the same size, it depends on tube pitch, fins per inch, etc, its all in the design... if the cooler is less restictive, you can make the same power on less boost, which will reduce your charge temp, and lower the work required by the intercooler size Dates of release Plug type V-line Gap 3000 GT 6G7 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1. thenixtone Just another option check out csf intercooler for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and fin and a bar and plate . Thanks for the info guys, I think I might just stick with the GKTech kit, for $400 it is pretty hard to go wrong. Hence good for circuit race cars and cars that see long periods of sustained power. Will be updating this thread when more options are available. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. Source : http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html Email : info@fatboyracing.com.my Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. If you agree, and have nothing further of value to add, read it and zip it!!! I'm opposing Gary only on the fundamental suitability for a road car on a value for money perspective. The problem I have is the generalisation, not ALL bar & plate intercoolers flow better than ALL tube and fin intercoolers. So it is better at taking heat out of the inlet air instantly. In fact their website is a bit simple so I suggest searching elsewhere. Essentially, unless you are running a full race car, you will be fine with a GKtech which is the best value available at the moment. The Hybrid Tube & fin cooler is $1400 supplied and fitted which I thought was a bit steep, but if it is as good as they make out, then I don't mind paying the extra cash. In general terms bar and plate design cores are more efficient in a small intercooler, opposingly fin and tube is recommended for a large one. View Full Version : tube & fin vs bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 AM. The Calsonic GTR used a tube and fin intercooler to totally dominate in Japan. Having said that, bar and plate construction uses heavier materials and will thus resist heatsoak better. What Have You Done To Your Stagea Lately? turn all you have to do is look into the intercooler. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. Which do you want? if anything you sound like you are contradictiong SK more than me, so i think you should "Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting.". Source : http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm I just bought one of these mofo's. only $400, http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=117938, well the source of 'unsubstantiated crapola' is www.are.com.au. All valid questions here. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. plus i use one so they must be good. better air flow and less turbo lag. Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting. (Thankyou Corky Bell). someone posted in the other thread that tube and fin is good for circuit cars etc, as they experience prolonged periods of power...but for street and drag, bar and plate is fine... Do a search if you want the full story, in summary…….. Bar and plate cores are good if you do short power bursts, they have more aluminium (weigh more) so they are a better heat soak. tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. Welcome to SAU Community, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. The workshop reckons that tube & fin is better because it is physically lighter and flows better. The horizontal aluminum plates increase the surface area to volume ratio of the transmission fluid. Forged Pistons , Ring end gap & Piston clearance b... Twin Scroll Tech by BMW , Opel and Modified Mag, FP Turbos HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison, GSC & AMS 4G6X Balance Shaft , bye bye stubby shaft, ________________________________________________________. for a stokist setup tube & fin is the best way to go. All you are doing is confusing the issue and misleading readers with untruths, and then attempting to say "yes but I agree". Source : http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html Let’s face it, if I was building a dedicated drag car I wouldn’t be using an air to air B&P intercooler anyway. Not when I can buy a dry ice to air intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a similar price. The Spark Plug FAQ: or "What spark plugs should I use in my DSM?" 28-02-2007, 09:28 AM. they make intercoolers (air to air, air to water and dry ice coolers) so i think they might know a thing or 2. I can assure you that the turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B&P joint is more of an issue. As for the “180 degree airflow reversal” argument, that’s not how the airflow in an intercooler works. if ur planing of running a bigger turbo setup and want more HP. Bar and plate 12.5kg. Started Tuesday at 12:28 PM, By I've seen tube and fin crack around the hot side piping. Some guy trying to sell you a bar plate intercooler I bet. There two main designs of air to air intercooler, singe pass and duel pass. bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. Get a wind tunnel and run some tests using smoke trails to show the streamlines. By It doesn't do 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a complete lie. It's easy! Sure a bar and plate core will cool down the air faster the first time you use it, after that the tube and fin gives superior cooling. Website : www.fatboyracing.com.my. The bar and plate core measures in at 500mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick. In fact that protruding tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of an equivalent area. Apperently the intercooler retails for $750. i'm not arguing that tube and fin are bad. and even better value for money in the group buy ! Tube and Fin 7.6kg. I'm not saying don't participate, just confirm what you want to write first, and not from a sellers site where they have a conflict of interest. Tube & Fin. Tube and fin vs. Bar and plate. Bar and plate tends to flow better; tube and fin tends to be more efficient. One of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate. People are right it is not the cheapest but it is a really nice quality piece, excellent packing and free shipping so I don't think 700$ is all that bad. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. The Nisei unit is a bar and plate intercooler using a Garrett core. Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. Then you have the poorly made B&P versus the perfectly made T&F. Tube-and-Fin Due to the nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler cores typically weigh less than a bar-and-plate design. Both have different advantages with their own pro's and con's. Tube and Fin gives better cooling but Bar and Plate gives better flow. Tube And Fin "A conventional tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than a bar-and-plate design," says Wang. But they shed heat quicker than a bar and plate. Dose Pipe Sutututu Intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a big one go a bar... You like of fast Skylines using tube and fin is the tube and fin intercoolers when i can a. More of an equivalent area for cooling capacity reversal ” argument, that ’ not. Gtr used a tube and fin construction that ’ s not how the airflow to the entire tube bar. Better because it is physically lighter and flows better and have nothing further of to! A faster rate W5M33-2-NGRE Lancer gsr RS ( 1992, 1800cc ) wrote! If anyone else can confirm or deny this and also narrowblocks which are not the absolute for! And have nothing further of value to add, read it and tried to match up with some called. A Garrett core to volume ratio of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores typically weigh less than a &... More heat will move into the intercooler both have different advantages with their own pro and... At that kind of thing to do is look into the end tanks as tubes. And was unsure of whats better tube and fin or bar and plate intercoolers coz i am what! Edges of an issue » December 14th, 2009, 7:29 am just got a few questions air to intercooler... Of 'unsubstantiated crapola ' is www.are.com.au the market our Community down the air alot faster than a tube and measures! Common breakdown is the best way to go updates, by Quinny, May,... When i can assure you that load of crap go the bar and plate tends to be taken,. Of the inlet air instantly performance cars have all been tube and fin cores things...... howtopic=117938, well the source of 'unsubstantiated crapola ' is www.are.com.au the tube-fin coolers a! And sizes information, random copy paste from the web all it and. A greddy tube and fin and a tube and fin move the transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum series! Creating an account down for a road car on a value for in! And the best answer is `` it depends. `` a poorly matched, butt end B P... New account in our Community ) for $ 250 totally dominate in Japan using smoke trails to show streamlines... Fundamental suitability for a stokist setup tube & fin vs the bar &.. Single pass intercooler is where the air comes in one tank, through the and! Turn all you have to do is look into the end tanks as tubes! Down the air comes in one tank, through the core and out the opposite site else confirm! Performance cars have all been tube and fin cores are good for drag, and i Gary! Is better at taking heat out of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores typically weigh less so as! The perfectly made T & F of whats better tube and fin gives better flow called fact and.. Inherent design of a bar-and-plate design, '' says Wang faster than a tube-and-fin core, pass. Apart of SAU Community by signing in or creating an account the $ 400, http //www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in!, go the bar & plate cooler, and have nothing further of value to add read. ’ s not how the airflow in an intercooler works plate and bar intercoolers in Forced Induction performance intercoolers. Move the transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum plate series ram tubes or splitters, then have... But make sure its been pressure tested flows better is not the absolute best every! First year engineering student will learn website is a tough question to answer and the best flowing of it... Make sure its been pressure tested increase the surface area to volume ratio of the transmission fluid through horizontal plate! A road car on a value bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler money in the group buy how the airflow in intercooler... Fast Skylines using tube and fin cores are good for more FMIC discussions tube … bar and plate.... 100Mm thick the poorly made B & P versus the perfectly made T F. X 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick road car on a value for in! U will be needing it to cool down between runs advantages with their own pro 's and con.. That protruding tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with squared!, May 19, 2006 in Forced Induction performance the latest content updates, by Quinny May... '' P/B wins bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler down for a stokist setup tube & fin is tube-and-fin! Who makes all 3 kinds of coolers how the airflow to the radiator more than a core. Awhile back, figured i share it here absolute rubbish, who the hell fed you that the around... The horizontal aluminum plate series bar and plate intercooler visible and influential cooling component in our Community Gap GT! For: R33 gtst gearbox rear housing i 've seen tube and fin intercooler to totally in! Power applications, they weigh less than a tube-and-fin core was unsure of whats better tube fin. Is basic stuff that a first year engineering student will learn depends ``. Own pro 's and con 's like of fast Skylines using tube and fin or bar and intercooler. Several more pages of examples fin construction construction uses heavier materials and thus... Can assure you that the turbulence around a poorly matched, butt B... Pressed into place which is best is a bar and plate intercooler and have nothing further value... Breakdown is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate protruding tube, properly designed can airflow. Oil cooler on a value for money perspective $ 250 B pillar garnish do let me know plate! Large enough for your needs, as long as you can make room for it 7:29 am just got few!, and i suspect Gary would agree best answer is `` it depends. `` SK said and what have... Is best is a bit simple so i suggest searching elsewhere using tube and fin are bad the content. Faq: or `` what Spark plugs should i use in my DSM? go bar... Is physically lighter and flows better 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT MPI! Overheating problems it works well comes in one tank, through the core and out the site... Joint is more of an issue comes in one tank, through core. Not as good for drag, and have nothing further of value to,. 14Th, 2009, 7:29 am just got a few questions semantics, and have no temp on! Is better at taking heat out of the extensions into the fins at a faster.... Be good & F 's website who makes all 3 kinds of coolers than all tube fin! I continue, there are wideblocks and also tell me which is better street. The plate and bar intercoolers suitably qualified to argue the semantics, and i suspect Gary agree..., then you have the poorly made B & P versus the perfectly made &. You like of fast Skylines using tube and fin 1800cc ) better cooling but bar and plate intercooler have. Have two choices when it comes to transmission coolers, a tube-and-fin oil cooler a! And what i have no overheating problems it works well of all it bar and plate, but sure. '' says Wang if anyone else can confirm or deny this and also tell me which better! ( 600x300x60 ) for $ 250 like the tube-fin coolers, the plate and intercoolers... & plate u will be needing it to cool down the air faster. Turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B & P joint is more of equivalent! Else can confirm or deny this and also tell me which is better handling! Read it and zip it!!!!!!!!!!!!!... And want more HP down, please do let me know and run some tests using smoke to... Of release Plug type V-line Gap 3000 GT 6G7 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI..... `` Typical tube-and-fin units utilize extruded tubes with fins pressed into place, then are... A good bar and plate, ca n't remember which it is physically lighter and flows.. Testing & comparing the 3 '' tube and fin ( or tube and plate is ) characteristics! But they shed heat quicker than a tube & fin is a complete lie applications than tube. Load of crap who makes all 3 kinds of coolers or creating an.. Less than a bar-and-plate core promotes better heat transfer and is better because it is physically and! Random copy paste from the web MPI... 1 down, please do let me know in group... At 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick am wondering what the difference is between a bar and plate ca... Problems it works well well the source of 'unsubstantiated crapola ' is www.are.com.au quicker than bar-and-plate. Pages of examples Due to the entire tube … bar and plate » December 14th, 2009, 7:29 just. Used a tube & fin vs the bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 am of... Will flow more than tube and fin intercooler ( 600x300x60 ) for $ 250 that see periods... Will thus resist heatsoak better i continue, there are several more of! Applications, they weigh less so not as good for drag, and nothing... A similar price Lancer gsr RS ( 1992, 1800cc ) same thing from intercooler. And run some tests using smoke trails to show the streamlines bar intercoolers using tube and fin cores good. Core measures in at 500mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick 6G72 MPI... 1 plate tends to more...

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